Pavel Tsatsouline Kettlebell Strength Training Weight Lifting Workouts Exercise and Flexibility Questions & Answers.

Hello to all. My question is about how to keep from injuring the rotator cuffs. My shoulder has been acting up recently, and I think it is due to snatches. Does anyone know if this is due to a specific technique flaw or does this sometimes just happen with certain people? Please help!!! Thanks -Nick 

Have been doing the Westside Singles program the past few weeks and decided to add some rack pulls after the singles (10 x 1 x 75%, or 265 with max of 353). Did the 10 reps at 265 and felt great. Then set power rack so that the bar is just above the knees and did one at 225 to practice form before I got heavier. Felt heavier than it should have. Went to 315. Got it but it felt really heavy and low back did not feel strong, especially considering that it is still below my max pull. For some reason, I expected that these would be a lot eaiser with the reduced range of motion. Does this indicate anything in particular to you? Weak low back and the legs are doing the majority of the work with the normal pulls maybe? Technique issue? Just curious as to your thoughts. Thanks, Steve. 

That was the headline of the St. Paul Monday morning paper that was on the floor as I stepped out of my hotel room on my way to checkout and head for the airport. I got 5 feet down the hallway and turned around to read it again to make sure that is what I read. First, I felt bad about the twin's medical condition and wondered why the good people of St. Paul would be interested in their travel itinerary. Then I realized that the story concerned the Baseball Twins and the playoffs. For the last three days I was totally disconnected from the world and focused just on the Kettlebell Universe of the RKC. My next thought was that the copy editor could have found a better way to announce the great news and my fear is that you might feel the same about my thoughts regarding the recent RKC. But, I'll give it a shot. From the posts and photos from the past few RKC's, it sounded and appeared that is was just the same program that I went through in Sept. 02. Within 5 minutes of the first day I realized that this was different. The entire program moved seamlessly from one detail to the next. The presentations of the Senior instructors were precise and polished. Each layer built and expanded upon the last. There was no doubt about the points being made and what you were excepted to know and use when training your "victims". Clearly, this is a Russian Kettlebell INSTRUCTORS course and the purpose is to make the RKC better at the communication and instruction of the use of Kettlebells, to throughly understand the principals of strenght training and to take that knowledge and work creatively in the fitness world to expand the use of this amazingly powerfull tool. Just as Pavel and his instructors expect all RKCs to work hard and constantly strive to improve, they expect nothing less of themselves. This recent RKC has shown that they lead by example and they succeeded. I want to thank Pavel and all of the instructors for sharing their valuable time, knowledge and energy. Guys, it worked. I would also like to thank John, Denny and all of the Dragondoor staff for all of their hard work. Once again, guys, it worked. I enjoyed meeting and hanging out with all of the other "victims" during our time of "hurt". This was truly a positive and uplifting experience. When the fatigue and pains fade the memories of this event will glow even brighter. A special thanks to Rob for your assistance in working through my shoulder injury. I enjoyed finally meeting you after all of these years and I truly value the knowledge you shared. There were many great personal moments but one that I would like to leave you with: Bud Jefferies (1,000# squater) at John DuCane's Sunday night's class doing Bear (Qigong). If it is fitness, Bud will try anything. Bud, "you're the man". Pavel, as always, it is a pleasure and an honor to know you and to have you as a teacher and a friend! Peace & Power Rick Huse  

10/4 No training. 5 October 2004 64Kg KB LC Dead C&P 2*2 Power Cleans 130*1, 150*1, 180*1, 200*High Pull, 190*1, 195*1, 195*1, 200*HP, 220*HP Cheat Curls 145*3, 150*3, 130*3 64Kg LCCJ 2*5 64Kg SCCJ 2*5, set two with untimed rack rest at the end of the set. 32Kg Snatch 10L/R Abs and light BW drills on Bosu ball (Cotter drills). Lots of OHS with a broomstick. The kettlebell work was done at a fast tempo, resting as needed between sets. Just looking to blow the dust off the technique at this stage. Earlier this year, I trained for GS and attempted to work on pistols. I neglected streching and mobility and slaughtered myself, especially the knees. That's not going to happen this time, and a good chunk of time will be dedicated to Bosu, stretching, BW squats, Yoga, whatever it takes to keep feeling right. Going to resume posting daily sessions here for a while, tire flipping and other fun stuff tomorrow. 

Hello all, New to the forum, recently purchased (The Naked Warrior) and I'm pretty impressed by Pavel's ideas. The book has raised a few questions concerning the daily physical training I do as a Marine. From what I can tell, standard Marine PT (the daily 16) seems to be focused on high-rep calisthenic exercises, which are excellent for developing endurance, but, as Pavel points out, not entirely appropriate for sheer physical strength. Granted, endurance is something that is critical to a Marine's success, but what about strength itself? I was once under the impression that the bigger, the stronger (and being a rather small guy, 5'10 at 140 pounds, I wasn't too happy with that fact), and I spent a lot of time in the gym doing the usual high-rep, go-for-the-pump workouts that usually didn't add up to much. These days, I know for fact that "what you look like has no bearing on what you can do," but I am still not sure why the Marines focus entirely on endurance in their PT programs and do not include low-rep, high-tension techniques (at least, not that I have seen) as demonstrated by (The Naked Warrior). After all, if our former communist "enemies" were out every morning pumping out pistols, why weren't we doing the same? Any thoughts from the board would be appreciated. Semper Fi, -Ammo 

I just recieved my kettlebell in the mail about two weeks ago - and love it. It kicked my ass a few times, but we always make up. I have noticed a little pain in the front and top of both of my hips. This is nothing major ( as far as I can tell) as it goes away after about a half hour or so minus a little twinge here and there. I am wondering: 1. is it just the strain of a new workout and something that I can work through? 2. Is it a problem with joint flexibility? 3. Is it a problem with my form? I would greatly appreciate any Party advice. Thanks  

Anyone here rock climb either indoor or outdoor and what benefits to implementing into an overall conditioning/grip/flexiblity program have you found?? Looking to get into it and just curious. Thanks Brad Nelson 

Anyone here rock climb either indoor or outdoor and what benefits to implementing into an overall conditioning/grip/flexiblity program have you found?? Looking to get into it and just curious. Thanks Brad Nelson 

Could you please take a look at my pullup questions on page 7 titled 'Bouncimg pullups' and share your experience? Thanks, Dave.  

Hi, everyone. This is my first post on a dragondoor. About 8 month ago, I have damaged my AC joint on a right sgoulder, followed by injuring my deltoids. Then I developed tennis elbow, golf's elbow. But continued exercising with KB all the time. I am originally from Russia. And started using them (KB) almost 20 years ago. Now I am 44. Before my injuries I could easily press 32 kg with one arm. Now I find it very difficult to do, because as soon as I start pressing, pain develops in my deltoid(tendon's) zone and i think my nervous system just shuts the operation down. I tried to rectify the problem by starting all over with 24 kg kb, gradually increasing the weight by 1.25 kg, using duct tape. As a result of that I can easily press 2 32kg kb, but 1 arm pressing of this weight still evades me. my training normally include the following exercises. in a morning Deadlift (ptp) (personal best is 355 pounds 1RM) double kb clean & Press weighted chin-ups in the afternoon jerks alternated with double snatches Front squat (alt kb with barbell) windmills alternated with bent press I also occasionally do some sled pull, sledgehamming, kb throws, and juggling and some other kb drills just to maintaing the groove( i like the variety. So, would anyone be able to explain, why I am struggling to press 32 kg with one arm and do not have any problems to two arm press it ? I would also appreciate your comments on my training. I don't train for anything particular. I just love kb and deadlift and I believe that the exercises I do workout all my body and keep me a a good shape. If could only get rid of my old injuries !!!!! Thank you all in advance. Phil  

Comrades, Bad day for KB's as we know it. I am the sales manager of a large upscale fitness equipment store and I am also a trainer and fitness consultant. In today's mail was the Power Systems Fitness Professional Catalog (other versions arrived last week both at home and here at work)and a direct mail promotion from Kettlebell Concepts offering turnkey Kettlebell programs for health clubs & trainers, including KB training certifications. Having gone through my second RKC two weeks ago, I am saddened to see this watered down crap reach the public but not surprised. Bellomo (MAX Kettlebells) and Ganulin (Kettlebell Concepts) are each promoting their own versions of KB's and KB training. Because of this massive exposure, the fitness public doesn't know the recent origins KB's in America and the pure KB tradition that Pavel teaches. Our small "hardcore" corner of the fitness world has been invaded by KB want-to-be's. Ken & Barbie KB's...UGH! I would like to see them go through one of Steve Maxwell's 15 minute workouts. Sorry for the rant but I thought you should know of this growing fungus. I know others have recenting brought this topic up but as an industry insider, I can see this is spreading very rapidly into areas you may not be aware. Peace & Power Rick Huse CSCS/RKC 

Just got back from Marine Corps Boot Camp and was looking for advice from Pavel or Nate Morrison on training for Tactical vs. Boot Camp conditioning. I used KB's for GPP before bootcamp along with pull-ups and scored a 285/300 on my final Physical Fitness Test. Thanks for the help, Pvt. Kris Freeman 

Hello Pavel, First, I would like to write that I have enjoyed reading Relax Into Stretch. It has been quite eye-opening. Some questions if you don’t mind on forward spine flexion: 1) You wrote, “Never use the Waiting out the Tension for forward spine flexion or toe touching type stretches”. How does the “Souped up Toe Touch” avoid this problem? Why does contracting the butt prevent this during the non-relaxation part, or is it something else? 2) What about “The Spine Decompression Hang”? How is it that stretching of ligaments/tendons is not a danger with this? What about if one has additional weight hanging on oneself, such as your friend who wanted to be taller? 3) What about stiff-legged deadlifts? Do these pose a danger for over-stretching the back? What is your opinion of stiff legged deadlifts and what form do you recommend? 4) Why is the ligament/tendon concern an issue only for bending over stretches and not for twisting stretches or hanging stretches? Thanks, Instadrew 

Just wondering. After working with Brett Jones last week, the time my come later that I will need a heavier one for my swings. As always, thanks and God bless. 

As part of a high school science fair, I'm going to try to test the two against one another. for a few months I'm going to follow the "new" HIT by Dr. Darden (www.drdarden.com)(yes I know how most people think that HIT is crap), while someone else tries training with volume I'm going to follow a training method from the HIT book, but I don't know any good volume based exercise routines does Pavel have a book about this? I'm also thinking about concentric vs. eccentric exercises and comparing the two... thanks 

It would help this site a lot if the RKC gave this forum more direction. There are not enough posts on technique. It would be nice to see a RKC ask a question or post an informative message about over coming a technique problem. Some suggestions for topics...what to do with the non-lifting arm when doing snaches or clean and jerks, two kettlebell snatch...is it a primary exercise or something to be used for variety or active rest, windmills-sidepress-bentpress..all or one? This could be a great place for kettlebell information if RKCs take an active role in sharing information and training problems. Don't any RKCs have any questions or problems with their training? This post is to help the quality of the board not criticize RKCs. 

Links to prior related interactions: http://forum.dragondoor.com/training/message/299547/ http://forum.dragondoor.com/training/message/299548/ http://forum.dragondoor.com/training/message/299580/ http://forum.dragondoor.com/training/message/299599/ http://forum.dragondoor.com/training/message/299645/ http://forum.dragondoor.com/training/message/299549/ http://forum.dragondoor.com/training/message/299581/ http://forum.dragondoor.com/training/message/299582/ http://forum.dragondoor.com/training/message/299594/ http://forum.dragondoor.com/training/message/299596/ http://forum.dragondoor.com/training/message/299634/ http://forum.dragondoor.com/training/message/299674/ http://forum.dragondoor.com/training/message/299896/ http://forum.dragondoor.com/training/message/300015/ http://forum.dragondoor.com/training/message/300077/ http://forum.dragondoor.com/training/message/300043/ http://forum.dragondoor.com/training/message/299958/ http://forum.dragondoor.com/training/message/300178/ Pavel, 1 . You wrote: "Adam, get to the point." I ran out of time in my last em. The point to C-Rivers was that if you're going to pick a gun fight, don't forget your gun; or if you're picking a cook off, don't forget you ingredients and recipe, and so on... In this case, if you're going to critique movement teaching methodology, do so with critical movement analysis skills. If you don't understand what I'm doing, then better to ask questions and do the necessary homework before picking apart my methods without validity. Finally, don't be arrogant enough to think that experience and letters alone afford anyone the ability to publicly criticize any technique. C-Rivers and others have critiqued me in a defaming manner, without validity. I'm not trying to impress anyone. After reading and hearing about unprovoked, slanderous, libelous, and unprofessional defaming remarks made against me, a fellow KB enthusiast, I'm just defending myself from the unvalidated, incorrect criticism. 2 . You wrote: "No one here is impressed with the ' transverse plane ' ." Well I am. Again, I'm not trying to impress anyone. The mention of it is simple: since most human movements occur in all 3 POM the importance of transverse plane must be impressed upon any student of movement. "As strength is specific to the ROM/POM/, the intended velocity of execution, and the context in which it is applied, the ability to accelerate, decelerate, stabilize and control momentum through all three POM's singularly or any combination thereof can be the difference between winning and losing, healthy joints and diseased joints, and increased range of ability and limited range of ability, (Cronin, A., Juris, P., 2001, Functional Trunk Assessment--An Adaptation of : Brown, J. Mark M., Ph.D., and Gilleard, Wendy L., MSc (Hons); An Electromyographic Validation of an Abdominal Muscle Test, Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, Vol. 75, September 1994.) 2. You wrote: "We speak English here, including people with masters' degrees like Coms. Steve Maxwell and Brett Jones." a. I don't care who has what letters. Although I have immense respect for the academic rigor involved in obtaining advanced degrees, having employed, instructed, trained and supervised many Ph.D.'s, Ed.D.'s, D.C.'s, M.D.'s, M.S.'s, M.A.'s, M.Ed.'s, CSCS's, HFI's... and the like, it is my experience that degrees, letters, and certifications are not necessarily indicative of one's ability to critically analyze, interpret and effectively teach or communicate observations of movement. b. A little story: Aboard a sea ship with an inexperienced crew, the lookout pointed out that there were mermaids "left." Some of the crew members were at the fore of the ship (front) facing the fore, and some at the aft (back) facing the aft. Facing in opposite directions the crew at opposite ends of the boat looked "left" only to see the sea, no mermaids. The crew looked at the lookout and asked, "where? What are you talking about?" The lookout answered, "I told you to look left!" The moment passed and no one saw the mermaids lest the lookout. It turns out that the lookout was facing the port side of the ship, so his left was actually the aft, so when he told the crew to look left, the crew in the fore looked port, the crew in the aft looked starboard, yet the mermaids, again, were aft. c. Without a common language as a frame of reference, it is impossible for professionals across any field to communicate effectively , in this case, descriptive movement terminology. This is especially important when in the allied health field, physical trainers and the like are struggling to gain the respect and income they deserve from other more established fields such as physical therapy, medicine, law, and so on. When C-Rivers pointed out that what I was doing was unsafe, and did not describe the movement, nor qualities of the movement accurately, without a frame of reference for determining what is safe or not simply based on "experience" (experience is important, but only a part of the whole skill set necessary to make such determinations) and rote formula (I can tell this because there is no other logical, scientifically based reason or rationale stated to display any in depth thought process other than a rote teaching formula used over and over again), while criticizing me, a fellow fitness professional and KB enthusiast, he had no common validated methodology to draw his conclusions upon . Just as the crew at sea has a special language best suited to their environment, I say, "speak kinesologically and neuromechanically" when describing and critiquing movement , not plain old "English." d. (Written with my colleague, Randy Gruezo , B.S., CSCS, USAW ) Just like medicine, law, culinary arts, and other fields, exercise science has its different specialties. We are speaking from a motor learning/neuromechanical perspective, the language of movement. There are very few graduate programs that emphasize learning, let alone teaching motor learning/neuromechanics. Generally most graduate programs are physiology or rehab based and therefore their specialty does not necessarily apply to movement analysis. Similarly, if you needed a divorce, would you see a patent attorney? If you wanted Italian food, would you go to a Mexican restaurant? If you needed heart surgery will you go to a cardiovascular surgeon or a neurosurgeon? Common sense will tell you that you will go to a cardiovascular surgeon, but why? Don't they both have MDs? Doesn't that make them both doctors? Obviously you will go to the cardiovascular surgeon because that is his specialty irrespective of the fact that they are both doctors. Just like MD's; MS's, Ph.D.'s, and the like in exercise/sports sciences have specialties as well. Mother Russia during communism had different fields of expertise in their sports programs. There were specialist in track and field, o-lifting, basketball, etc. In order to become recognized as a Ph.D. you had to pick a sport of specialization and study that for the rest of your life (Zatsiorsky and Voroboyev texts indicate this). All those individuals had to direct the general focus of their studies and research to obtain mastery in one particular sport or field. Our specialty and background is motor learning/neurokinesiology based. Letters alone, if at all in some cases, do not determine specialty. Knowledge and execution of the subject matter at hand does. The previous posts regarding me are from KB enthusiasts passionate about what they do, however that passion is misdirected and keeping their minds closed to other perspectives and giving them a cult like mentality especially when some posts use the word "invasion" in it. Our goal is to enlighten all interested parties, hardcore or not, and acknowledge the fact that its certainly okay to keep it hardcore for hardcore sake. But if we intend to increase the professionalism and credibility of our field there has to be a level of accountability starting with "correct movement terminology" and critical problem solving skills. Only then we will be looked upon the same pedestal as other professionals such as Doctors, Lawyers, etc. We think it's easy to give a kick ass workout with the KB, but wouldn't it be better to understand WHY someone perceives this to be a kick ass workout ? As well as being able to explain it to the lay person how KBs are helping them increase the quality of their life ? By educating our clients in a meaningful way we have found much greater adhesion and dedication of our clients to the fitness lifestyle--this was grossly apparent in having operated in large part the largest commercial personal training dep't in history reaching $36M annually. We always keep in mind that we are all just trying to connect to something larger than any of us or our understanding. It is in this way , when people connect to the methodology of KB training, that KBs will make it to and be here to stay in mainstream USA because the person educated as well as having experienced the training effect will tell other people , and so on, and the popularity of KBs will keep growing. Any resistance modality can potentially give a great workout, but usually they are trends and have a near finite life cycle (Tae Bo, Zumba, Stability ball only workouts. .. ) They all provide great workouts in the eyes of the consumer initially due to the immediate varied stimulus provided , however their popularity dissipates because although people feel good after they workout ultimately it doesn't give them the results they are looking for. Results in the long run is all what people care about in the end and by not understanding KBs as much as possible then KBs run the risk of being another trend, or at least not reaching its potential existentially and financially--and none of us, including you I'm sure, want that. 3. I would like you to know that I have been fan, and student of yours. The above, however, are just a few ways in which you and I differ. We can agree to disagree as long as we do it honorably and professionally --and encourage our circles of influence to do so in such a manner too. As fitness professionals, it is better though to continually expand our horizons, always in pursuit of better methodologies--if you will, in the spirit of science, in the pursuit of truth--and as ethical business people, for the betterment of all who would be beneficiaries of our services. It is my belief that a teacher's goal is to impart information, not for the sake of rote behavior in his/her students, but rather to develop the critical thought process of those that will come after him/her -- to become self sufficient problem solvers and decision makers with the ability to critically analyze any related information to the subject matter at hand--to take what I have imparted on them, and run with it--to become passionate about the subject to the point that in their own way, surpasses my abilities---it is then that I know that I have done a good job teaching. I am indeed a student of many minds before me, including yours. Because I have different views doesn't mean that we, or any of the members of your forum and following nor those in my circles of influence, have to be at odds to the point of unprofessional public defamation, as was the case with a few of the previous posts re: Dave and myself. I would always like to keep on the up and up with you. To that end, if you would ever like, I would be honored to have the opportunity to exchange ideas and views with you without conflict of interest, as peer to peer, "comrade to comrade," student to teacher, 1-1, or however you like, with nothing more than the goal of seeing ideas through the eyes of another and the learning process that takes place when that kind of open minded exchange is made. Respectfully yours, Adam Khai-Cronin

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