Pavel Tsatsouline Kettlebell Strength Training Weight Lifting Workouts Exercise and Flexibility Questions & Answers.

Pavel Tsatsouline Kettlebell Flexible Strength Training Instructor. RKC Questions.

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Pavel Tsatsouline

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Training Answers from Pavel Tsatsouline for 2004-07

Question

Frankie: July 02 2004 

Need some help from Pavel, Steve Cotter and other academicians 

Comrades, I a strong believer in "locking out" the joints. I am an KB acolyte and accept the "party line" without question like a good little comrade. It is so easy to accept because it has been presented with adequate scientific and anecdotal evidence in a language I can undersand. One of my first PE mentors, Dr. Tom Seabourne, is a victim (little joke) of the western educational system. Steve Cotter knows him and can vouch for him. Seabourne is quite open minded and knowledgeable of educators such as Zatsiorsky, Siff, etc. Being educated, he is skeptical of different or new ideas (to him) in training. While on a visit home, I stopped by to demonstrate KB's, which he loved by the way, he saw me perform the tail tuck, ab compression and knee lock out in my swings (I had plenty of pratice at the RKC). The tail tuck reminded him of the Okinawan Shorin-ryu (which he teaches and taught me). He loved this but wasn't too hip to the idea of locking out the joints. I did my best to explain why I locked out the joints - but he has the level of education where anecdote alone just won't cut it. I have looked on T-nation, Dolfzine, Cybersport E-zine and haven't found much. I am going to look on the SUPERTRAINING forum for some of Siff's old posts to see if I can find something useful. I thought I would also run it by those academically minded here. I wrote a response to him where I included everything I found from a search here. I am including it for a critique (before I send it to him) and any changes that need to be made. I am great with concepts, but my mastery of scientific terms leaves much to be desired. If any terms are misused and need to be replaced, please let me know. START MESSAGE Seabourne- Good to see you and glad you enjoyed the KB demonstration. Let me know how your meeting with David Ganulin goes. I am in the process of looking through some forums and articles on the subject of locking out the joints. Here is what I have found thus far. 1. As you mentioned, Olympic lifters (weightlifters) fully lock out their joints (and do full squats - ass to calves). OLY lifters have as healthy if not healthier joints than others in the lifting community. Note, they don't have laxity when performing full ROM (flexion or extension). They are sufficiently tense. 2. As one who is academically minded, you cannot accept the idea of locking out on anecdotal evidence alone. Yet, I don't know of any scientific evidence that it is harmful to the joints to lockout. In fact, the only study I have seen that weightlifting is harmful to the body is tests done on a skeleton. Is this just an idea that slipped in under the radar without proof? 3. Not locking out (when lifting or standing - not when punching / kicking air) causes decreases in flexibility or contracture. Limited ROM leads to Kinetic Chain dysfunction. 4. Not locking out leads to less stability in a lift. 5. Not locking out doesn't relay sensory information to the mechanoreceptors (present in joints) which in turn doesn't relay sensory information to the nervous system. This limits your strength, alters a firing pattern - leads to dysfunction - muscular and otherwise. 6. Not locking out fails to lubricate a joint and doesn't "polish" the joint surface making it more prone to injury and dysfunction. 7. The body's natural ROM should exercised. While some can argue it shouldn't be moved under load, all should agree it is only intuitively correct to move the body through it's full ROM. The joint should support proportionate bodyweight for joint stability/mobility's sake (legs = full weight, arms = partial weight, etc.) (NOTE: mobility: strength plus flexibility). 8. I don't have FACTS AND FALLACIES OF FITNESS by Siff - but an item in the book is the fallacy of not locking out your knees - to which you espouse. I know you are a believer in SUPERTRAINING - so this lends some veracity to my argument. I am posting on a couple of forums to find out the exact quote. In the meantime, I recommend you joining the Supertraining forum (for FREE) where you can talk with some experts in the field and some accomplished chiro's PT's, MAT and ART practicioners about your particular problem. 9. My instinctive prescription is to perform the posterior pelvic tilt accompanied by lockout at the knees from a standing position. Isometrically contract the entire legs and hips working up to a full contraction in 5 seconds. Start doing this once a day. (This shouldn't lend itself to much protracted discomfort) The next day do it twice but not two times in a row - let's say morning and night. Do this for two weeks until you are doing it once on the hour for an entire waking day. After two weeks, stop those and try a new exercise. Go from a full chinese sitting stance (like an Olympic front squat - ass to calves) and stand up finishing with the tail tuck and knee lock with an isometric contraction at the top of the motion. This should help with the tight hip flexors (which I think is both symptomatic and causative in your pain). After that, you can start over with the limited frequency and add some speed and power until you have a snappiness to the motion. Let me know what you think, Frankie" END MESSAGE Thanks comrades, Frankie

http://frankie@train4tkd.com, www.train4tkd.com 

Answer

Pavel Tsatsouline: July 02 2004 

Com. Frankie, one look at old folks and bodbuilders of any age make the case for locking out. If you fail to extend your muscles, they will shorten with time, the condition known as 'contracture'. I don't have any research on hand but a chiropractor should be able to help you. Ping Com. Doc Kevin from your RKC class. 

 

Question

scubasteve: July 02 2004 

GS and Elbow stiffness 

I just started GS LC and after a couple of 10 rep sets, the outside of my left elbow begins to become tight. The joint dose not feel tight, it's a ligmint or something? I can feel in on the way down, but not up? Any thoughts? 

Answer

Pavel Tsatsouline: July 06 2004 

Com. Steve, it is possible that you are not relaxing your arms enough on the drop and/or fail to straighten them out on the bottom of the clean. In any case, do fewer sets and reps for now and work on your technique. Don't build up untilyou have figured it out; it won't get better with higher volume.  

 

Question

PT Major in ECSU: July 04 2004 

What do people think? 

I'm training to become a Special Operator for the US Military, and I recently decided (after reading some of the articles on this site) that I would try a different approach to pre-training training than most of the wannabes out there. So I concocted this PT plan. I'd like to know what you guys think of it, and if you think it's no-good some criticism would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Phase One (Three weeks): Mon-Thurs- Pullups (Ladders) Dips (Ladders) Chinups (Ladders) One-Armed Pushups (Ladders) Pistols (3 sets, stopping a rep or two before failure) Hanging Leg Raises (3 sets, stopping a rep or two before failure) Fri- Pullups (GTG: 1 set @ 1/2 1RM/hour, from wake to rest) Same as above for everything else but pullups Phase Two (Two weeks): Mon-Fri- Pullups (1 set in the morning, 1 at night; each set at 3/4 of 1RM) All other exercises done in the same manner as Phase One During this Phase, I don't hesitate to do 1500 8-counts, or 1000 10-counts instead of the usual daily PT. Just to break up the monotony and make sure that I can still perform extreme high-rep puke-exercises. During both phases, I also run between 12 and 25 miles per week. I alternate between the two phases. The pullups are the bulk of it because I need to work on those the most. Also, if anyone here has any US SpecOps experience and could accurately assess how this PT works as it relates to preparing for training, any input at all would be very helpful. Thanks. -Nate 

Answer

Pavel Tsatsouline: July 06 2004 

Com. PT Major, welcome to the Party! You need to differentiate between PT training for SOF selection and operational fitness. They are not the same. The former is about the tolerance to thousands of situps, pushups, etc. The latter is what we preach. For selection you need to talk to someone who serves in the unit you are after. Ping Com. SSgt Nate Morrison. 

 

Question

subnormal: July 06 2004 

volume vs power, and OA pullup Q for Pavel 

My main question is this: Does (or can) occasional high volume with lighter weight help one gain numbers in higher-weight KB exercises? I am working on anchored snatches and LCCJs w/ 2x70lb KBs while at home, and when I'm at my girlfriend's place on the weekends I do high-volume DARC swings and snatches (300R + 300L total). Was wondering whether this is helping me or hurting me, or if there's a way to tweek the program so that it could help more. I train twice a day on MWF, and usually end up doing Friday evening and Monday morning with the lighter KB. Due to earlier suggestions on this forum, I do not do the anchored snatch in the same workouts as the LCCJ. Secondly: If anyone has any tips on developing the one-arm pullup, I would like to hear them. I will of course study the articles already online. I would especially like Pavel's perspective on this exercise as I am a huge fan of the Naked Warrior and I would like to see how he would break down the OA pullup as he did those exercises. Thanks all. --Emile 

Answer

Pavel Tsatsouline: July 07 2004 

Should you train with kettlebells lighter and heavier than competitive? There is not clear-cut answer. Let us review the research. Ivanova & Vasiliev (1972) concluded that long term isolated performance of an exercise in harder or easier than ‘normal’ conditions lead to an overspecialized adaptation and sharply limits transfer of the skill to other conditions. Armed with this research, Voropayev (1997) went out to prove that this applies to girevoy sport. He conducted a five-month experiment. Three groups of gireviks, all to be tested with 24kg kettlebells trained with 16, 24, and 28kg bells respectively. Kettlebell Weight, kg Jerk, % gain Snatch, % gain 16 10.3 12.7 24 35.5 34.5 28 14.5 16.6 You can see that the group that trained with competition size KBs made the best gains, apparently due to specificity. The heavier group did not do as well and the lighter group did outright poorly. Voropayev concluded that there is no advantage to long-term use of heavier or lighter than competitive KBs. Palvenev (1989) got a different outcome though. Following a six-month pedagogical experiment, the group that trained with 27kg kettlebells made 4.4% greater gains in the snatch and 10.2% in the jerk than the control group that lifted 24s. There is no clear explanation for the discrepancy. Perhaps Palvenev’s gireviks were less experienced than Voropayev’s and thus benefited from the greater strength that a heavier KB delivers. As you recall, beginners will make most gains in the GS total from strength emphasis. Or maybe the fact that the studies were done almost a decade apart has something to do with it; in 1989 the technique was not as sophisticated and strength was more important. It is interesting to note that Mishin’s first coach Valentin Zorin employed 41 and 43kg kettlebells. Nevertheless, later in his career the GS legend mostly stuck with bells that are just a hair heavier than the competition ones: 33kg. You need to approach lighter KBs just as cautiously. Research by Latishev & Mityunin (1998) revealed that gireviks modify their technique when lifting light kettlebells. Specifically, in the jerk the first dip is reduced and the second dip is minimized or altogether eliminated. The arms do not relax when lowering the KBs to the chest because they have enough strength to decelerate the bells by themselves. Gireviks barely go up on their toes for same reason. In the long cycle the arms are doing most of the work in the clean. In the snatch the kettlebell was not swung back as far between legs as there was no need for extra power. The scientists concluded that lighter KBs eliminate certain elements of technique; their lack is compensated with strength. Nevertheless, training with light KBs is important; just make sure to stick to the competitive technique. Rob Lawrence, RKC Sr., the first American to make the Level I, has used a one pood very successfully for honing his snatch technique. He paid meticulous attention to his groove though. He did not find the 16s useful for the jerk though as he could not exercise certain elements of the competition technique –e.g. leaning against the bells at the lockout –no matter how hard he tried. One application I have found useful is doing singles and doubles –it is not a misprint –in the same classic lift varying the KB weights every time. The goal is to perform each set with the optimal effort –no overpulling or overjerking, yet no near stalls. It is a mental game; hit the very first rep perfect. You will learn to evaluate the effort required with greater precision so you can hit efficient reps from the beginning of the set. The bottom line: there is no bottom line. Experiment. The Summary: Should you train with kettlebells heavier or lighter than competitive? • There is no advantage to long-term use of heavier or lighter than competitive KBs for the classic lifts (don’t confuse with the assistance). • With the exception of drop sets it is unclear how to make best gains with heavier or lighter kettlebells in the short term. • Gireviks have succeeded with competition size kettlebells only.  

 

Question

smash: July 09 2004 

Combining all three types of strength (to Pavel!) 

hi, I recently registered to this forum. I´ve read many threads yet and I am surprised about the fast and no-compromise answers. But now I´ve also got a question: Pavel, in your book "Naked Warrior" you wrote that one can combine bodyweight exercises, kettlebell and barbell training in one training shedule. Well, let me say first: I´ve also read P2P. And what can I say? I am very confused now! You´ll ask yourself now, why? And I gonna tell you, why ;). I am a martial artist and need the following three types of strength: explosive power maximum strength strength endurance I decided to get the explosive strength from kettlebell training (still have to read your Kettlebell training book). The maximum strength will be derived from training with barbells. I find it superior to training with one´s own bodyweight coz it´s more adjustable. Strength endurance will be derived from cals. So now the Crux ;). You wrote in Naked Warrior that s.o. can combine the three types of strength by progressing from explosive- to maximum strength to strength endurance. so far - so good. But how should I change my workout routine? In P2P you wrote about 3 different workout change methods (step cycle, wave cycle, linear cycle). Is this only for maximum strength? My final questions are: 1) How can I cycle a workout routine, which consists of the 3 types of strength? You also wrote in P2P, that s.o. has to do a workout 3-5 times / week. 2) Can I do my workouts also more than 3 times / week without overtraining? 3) How can I then incorporate GTG? 4) Does it make sense if I do so much different kinds of exercises or should I only do cals+kettlebells or weights+kettlebells? If yes, why? Oh my lord I hope I didn´t overtrain you, Pavel (so many questions) :). But I don´t think so! Hope to hear from you soon! Sincerely yours smash 

Answer

Pavel Tsatsouline: July 13 2004 

Com. smash, as a martial artist you have to simplify things a lot as there are many skills you need to practice and you have no time to agonize over your lifting. 1) How can I cycle a workout routine, which consists of the 3 types of strength? ONE WAY OF DOING IT IS EMPHASIZING ONE TYPE OF STRENGTH FOR A FEW WEEKS -YOUR WEAKNESSES IN THE OFF SEASON, STRENGTHS CLOSER TO THE COMPETITION. You also wrote in P2P, that s.o. has to do a workout 3-5 times / week. 2) Can I do my workouts also more than 3 times / week without overtraining? LOW REP STRENGTH -YES. ENDURANCE -NO, CONSIDERING MA PRACTICE IS EXHAUSTING (COM. STEVE MAXWELL LIFTS 1-2 TIMES A WEEK AND SPENDS THE REST OF THE TIME ON TEH MAT). 3) How can I then incorporate GTG? FOR ONE EXERCISE THAT DOESN'T OVERWORK THE PARTS OF YOUR BODY ABUSED IN MA. 4) Does it make sense if I do so much different kinds of exercises or should I only do cals+kettlebells or weights+kettlebells? If yes, why? IT IS A MATTER OF PREFERENCE.  

 

Question

KDiggy: July 12 2004 

Resilient: Recommended Sets question for Pavel 

Mr. Tsatsouline, I already know about no more than five reps per set, but how many sets would you recommend for the following: Russian Hockey Deadlift Wall Walk Hack Squats Russian Slalom I am constructing my own stretch/joint mobility routine and I would greatly appreciate any recommendations you have. 

Answer

Pavel Tsatsouline: July 13 2004 

Com. KDiggy, it depends. If you use them as SJ drills, follow the SJ guildelines (the total of reps is yoru age) although you should do fewer for the wall walk. If you Hack SQs for strength, do low reps; for muscular endurance (Steve Maxwell style) -up to 20. 

 

Question

chinodiaz: July 15 2004 

for pavel, barbell exercises power breathing 

hi, i have a confusion with power breathing and body tensing should i apply virtual power breathing during the whole rep or just the concentric part? if so, then what should i do during the eccentric part? and another question: while doing any squat movement how do i apply power breathing and hyperirradiation? please explain me step by step. yesterday while i was trying an overhead squat applying this techniques, i hurt my back, so please i need to understand this the best way i can please help. this is the way i did it 1) took a deep breath while contracting the pelvic floor 2) braced my abs. 3)started to go down to a full squat 4)returned to the starting position 5) let out some air, and relaxed a little. 6)then start again in 1) 7) did 2 sets of five reps what did i miss or what did i do wrong  

Answer

Pavel Tsatsouline: July 19 2004 

Com. chinodiaz, the two goals of PB and HT are stabilization and greater strength. There are many ways to breathe (or not breathe) while maintaining high intra-andominal pressure and they vary depending on the exercise. What you did for the SQ sounds good unless you relaxed too mnuch in step . 

 

Question

Josef: July 16 2004 

A few questions for Pavel and others on pushups... 

Are knuckle pushups bad for you, or do they cause the knuckles to harden and doing SJ prevents any damage? What about knuckle pushups with a clap? Are pushups on fins okay to add a clap with? I am tod that this is a part of a rather brutal pushup the Sayeret do that involves doing a pushup explosively, landing on your knuckles, then landing on the backs of your hands. That's one rep. Is it okay to do one arm pushups, once you've built up a level of condition, on your knuckles and fins? Can fingertip pushups lead to arthritis, or can this be prevented by doing ALOT of hand mobility drills? Probably seem like strange questions, but I'm curious. Thanks for any help. 

Answer

Pavel Tsatsouline: July 19 2004 

Com. Josef: -I'm not aware of any research that concludes that knuckle pushups are harmful although I would be picky about the surface. I have not tried the knuckle pushups with a clap. Are pushups on fins okay to add a clap with? -Haven't tried these either. Seems dangerous. Is it okay to do one arm pushups, once you've built up a level of condition, on your knuckles and fins? -Yes. Can fingertip pushups lead to arthritis, or can this be prevented by doing ALOT of hand mobility drills? -Do your fgrtip pushups withslightly flexed fingers and don't use more weight than you are ready for (elevate your hands in the beginning).  

 

Question

arnisaddict: July 17 2004 

optimum GTG for LC C&J 

Hey folks. I would like some input on GTG training for endurance/highreps on the LC C&J. My goals are 1.)Fat loss/general conditioning and 2.) eventually working towards a level III or II in Long Cycle GS (this is obviously a LOOONG ways away). I’m 1.9 meters and 113 kg so I’m eventually shooting for a rep of 55 on the 1.5 pood, or a rep of 36 on the 2 pood (I think that’s right). Anyway I have two 1pood/16kg KBs. I have to make do with these till the end of the deployment. On the upside I am working in a warehouse where I can keep my KBs and hit them hourly if I so desire. I have been trying to do a GTG thing, where I do C&J sets of 10 (maybe 2-3 sets) several times per day. Looking at the total kg lifted (55repsx24kg= 1320kg work) it looks like I should be shooting for a max rep set of 75-100 with the light 1 poods. I can then transition to the heavier KBs when I get home and work upwards from there. I figured I’d work on reducing the rest time between sets of ten till I’m hitting 30 or so maybe 4-5 times a day and then do straight GTG till the end of the deployment. Is this interpreting the GTG idea from Pavel’s Naked Warrior correctly for my situation? (I do some strength KB type training, mostly the Full KO stuff, with my arnis and silat practice in the evenings, and we have thrice weekly formation PT consisting of mild calisthenics and a formation jog of a few miles, so I don’t think I’m in much danger of overtraining…I don’t have that kind of discipline LOL) My main training goals here are real simple. I want to be a ripped-up unit, and have the awesome conditioning that’s implied by doing a few hundred C&Js per day. That's a good base for my present arts and the planned excursion into the Muay Thai that will commence upon completion of my involuntary summer vacation. Thoughts? Critiques? Insults? B***H-slaps? cheers, Brian  

Answer

Pavel Tsatsouline: July 19 2004 

Com. arnisaddict, I doubt you would be able to prepare for GS with GTG -the event is too demanding even at 50% intensity to keep repeating throughout the day. In the beginning, however, this would be a great way to hone your technique. Finish each day with a some assistance drill. E.g., Monday, a hard set of snatches, Tue, overhead walks, Wed, MPs, etc. Let us know how well it worked. 

 

Question

briangoldstein: July 19 2004 

Periodization Question... 

Hey everyone, I'm back! Just posting to let everyone know I've had a succesful track season, and sorry to anyone who was interested in my training - I really haven't been posting anywhere... Anyways, my 100m PR improved from an 11.00 FAT down to a 10.85 (albeit, now I've run less times at 11 or better than last summer). My best improvements were in the LJ and 200m... For the first time ever I LJ over 21 feet, I'd been stuck on 20 feet 3 inches forever! My 200m time also came down from 23.7 to 22.9, so I was very happy there. I may choose to focus my training on LJ and 200m, but that's another post. This Post is concerning my post season. School is starting again soon, and until Homecoming (10/25 is first on track work) is done, I'm not going to run. This still leaves me 7 weeks to prep for the indoor season. In the meantime, I'll be lifting, my only questions are, since for me, weights are general, which would be the optimal? Option A: - Jason Keen's "Best of the Best" 3-day Oly program, adapted for 4 lifts (Sq, Bp, Sn, Cl)...I've used this before, very solid program, user friendly, not a lot to juggle. Option B: - Defranco style Westside template... would be Mon - ME Bench Wed - ME Squat Fri - Clean Sun - Snatch --- Have not used this before, very intrigued Option C: - Joe Kenn style 3x3 tier template ... Seems like a modern version of a Bill Starr program... solid structure that incorporates WSB exercise rotation to avoid staleness and weak points. Opinions wanted.  

Answer

Pavel Tsatsouline: July 20 2004 

Com. briangoldstein, I am not a T&F expert, I just have something to pass along. I heard from a strength coach named Barry Ross who "has coached Allyson Felix who, as a 17 year old high school student in 2003, broke all of Marion Jones high school records in the 200 meters, and went on to run the fastest 200 meters in the world that year. Ms Felix also became the first track and field athlete to go directly from high school into professional track.... "All speed coaches know that the longer and quicker your stride the faster you run. It’s obvious that increasing one or both of these would result in greater speed, but how do you do it? The answer is very simple - increase leg strength. Increasing the amount of force you push off the ground with will automatically result in longer strides and faster turnover rates. However, simply getting stronger is not the answer--how you get stronger is! Typical weight training programs increase body weight along with strength, offsetting benefits in speed with a need for more force to propel the heavier bodyweight. It’s easy to see how this becomes an endless cycle. Therefore, the key to maximum running speed is to increase strength without increasing bodyweight. Is it possible to do this? Yes, but only with a radical change from current strength training methods to a method that reduces the overall number of lifts, the number of sets and reps [Com. Ross used the PTP DL protocol], includes timing of lifts, and special Plyometrics. The benefits are strength gain with minimal weight gain, less time in the weight room and of course, running a lot faster!" Com. Ross is working on an article for DD and, at some point, a book.  

 

Question

Rayshore: July 19 2004 

Questions and comments for the Party (very long) 

Howdy, I am currently a student at Texas A&M University, which is a hybrid of a military academy and a civilian academic institution (about 2,000 of us "Corps" guys and girls vs. 40,000 civilians) and have been following both Pavel, and other members of the Party, on Dragondoor, along with how they train, for quite some time. Your training methods have opened my eyes, and I could write a book of compliments on the ways they've changed my life, but I won't. You all have heard it all before. I will, however, say Thanks. Moving on. I plan to become a Naval Officer and have no ambitions of getting shot at for a living (ie, SEAL, SF, anything in the USMC, etc), however, from what I've read both from both here and SSG Nate Morrisson's website, kettlebells will help keep Americans alive. It would be a dishonor to my academy and my country to not try and instruct future US military officers on KBs, PTP, and NW principles. I currently only have the RKC book and a 1pood KB. I've been using the Omelet workout for a few circuits, along with GTG training for bodyweight exercises (pistols, OAPU, HSPU, regular PU, etc), with a fair amount of success (and a lot of fun), and my only setback is my own self-discipline/motivation. This Forum is pretty much it, which is why I'm trying to get my Corps buddies on the Party Line! No offense to the Forum, but true human contact is always a plus, and very few of ya'll are Southerners, let alone Texans. Note I am only interested in KB lifting and bodyweight lifting now and have eschewed pretty much all other forms of "weightlifting" (but like I said, KBs are just plain fun). I was at first highly skeptical that Pavel, his KBs, and his "Party" were nothing more than more hype and B.S. just like almost every other "former military guy" who claims to have something that will make you stronger, faster, and a harder man, which is why I read almost everything I can about a training program before jumping into it. To anyone who is on the fence about the Party and RKC, do yourself a favor and just do it. Now. This is the rest of your life and you have no time to waste. Pavel, I have huge respect for you, as well as all of you RKCers. The numbers ya'll put up in your lifts with the KBs are phenomenal. My current goals are: 1. Purchase both the Naked Warrior book and the RKC DVD. I'm still a college student, so money is always tight. 2. Get a 24kg to augment my training with the 1pood KB I have. 3. Work up to GS lifting numbers using RKC style lifting (I'll be happy just to be at the number III level with the 24kg). 4. Get every KB instructional DVD I can get my hands on. 5. Spread the word of the Party to Texas A&M. The last one is, obviously, the most daunting task, but is anything but impossible. I have only found one person in the entire university who even knows what a kettlebell is (except for the buddies I've worked out in front of), and no one who knows of Pavel's training techniques (periodization and volume, high tension, GTG, etc). Our current Corps PT regiment is struggling at best, and would do well to learn GTG instead of training to failure (SSG Morrisson's site has been most helpful, as well, in dispelling some old "American" PT beliefs). I've already spread the word of KBs and GTG to some of my buddies (23 guys total), but most are completely set on the American ideology of modern gyms and training to failure. I will assist this fall in training 42 new freshman, and will try to instruct them on both GTG and Tabata sprint training as best I can to help them pass the both the Air Force's and the Marine Corps PT tests (read: easiest vs. hardest ROTC PT tests). On to my Questions (the heart of my post): 1. Besides what I'm already doing, what is the most efficient way (notice I didn't say easiest) to spread the word of KBs and many of Pavel's training principles? This knowledge is gold. 2. Since I do not have the money (yet) to purchase two KBs of the same size, is it good to do 2-KB lifts with both the 1 and the 1.5pood, or is this not recommended? I'm referring to both ballistics and grinds, so any and all advice is welcome. 3. Are there any Party members #1 in Texas #2 around the Houston area right now or this December that would be willing to get together for KB work and #3 will be in the College Station area this fall for the same reasons? If there is already a group like this in either city, I would love to know. Otherwise, why don't we all just start one up? Thanks and Gig 'Em, Rayshore '07 "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve (or save) the world and a desire to enjoy (or savor) the world. This makes it hard to plan the day." - E. B. White 

Answer

Pavel Tsatsouline: July 20 2004 

Com. Rayshore, welcome to the Party and thank you for your kind words! I cannot improve on Com. Mike's advice. IMHO you can do alright with a 16kg for a long while. Focus on hard leverage drills (e.g. the Sots press and bottom-up press) and a lot of conditioning (focus on the swings). Slowly introduce the NW. Take Com. Mike's workshop. Power to you!  

 

Question

GnrX: July 23 2004 

PTP cycling program with dumbells? ....and pullup ladders.... 

Hello, I am completely new to weightlifting and I wish to start my newfound hobby lifting iron in a few days using (Power to the People) which I just bought. However, the gym I goto is very small only much like a large room. Thus I don't have a lot of space when performing the SIDE PRESS w/ a 7 ft. barbell or when I eventually work up to it. If I tried side pressing a barbell I would probably hit a machine, somebody else or at least get stared at and questioned about what I am doing. So my question is can I begin the PTP program with dumbells instead? Would it be the same effectiveness? Am I able to cycle with dumbells? If dumbells are okay then, what is the proper form and movement to side press one? any difference from a barbell side press? etc. thanks a bunch! GnrX This is a PREVIOUS POST of mine concerning pullup ladders. It's not related to this post. If you could answer the following, long post, I would appreciate it: Hello to everyone: Party Members, Pavel, RKCs I have a question concerning pull-ups ladders and everyone's participation and clarification on this subject matter would be greatly appreciated. I've been trying to piece together a summary or compendium of every bit of info concerning ladders. However, there seems to be a conflict of facts as various websites say different things concerning rest time, # of reps, etc. I've been trying to apply whatever info I can find to my pull-up training, but the # of pull-ups I can do hasn't really increased. i must be doing ladders wrongly. I only have access to a pull-up bar once a day (with no weights, but my own bodyweight), and my goal is 20 pull-ups. So GTG is out of the question. I can only ladder everyday, once a day. Currently I can ladder 1, 2, 3, 4 which is 2-3 reps before muscle failure/where I can't do anymore. So here are my questions: 1) When I ladder downwards, should I do it in multiples of ones or twos? i.e. 1, 2, 3, 4 1, 2, 3 1, 2 1 or the way I'm currently doing it now in multiples of two: 1, 2, 3, 4 1, 2 1 2) How long should my rest periods be between sets? 15 seconds--1 min. long? according to www.dragondoor.com/pavel_routines.html or 2-3 min as on Ssgt. Morrison's website? www.militaryfitness.org 3) Which HTT (high-tension techniques) should I apply to pull-ups? I read on a previous post that if I apply HTTs to every pull-up rep, I would 'burn out' quickly. Thus, should I only apply HTT only to the last couple of reps? 4) How should I breathe on every pull-up rep? Currently I'm doing exhale up, inhale down 5) Since I can't vary the frequency (b/c of limited access to pullup bars), should I vary the volume like Mondays - 1,2,3,4 Tues- 1,2,3,4 WEd, 1,2,3 Thurs- 1,2 Friday- 1,2,3,4 6) Sometimes I make the exercise harder on some days by tucking my legs a la Naked Warrior p. 17 or I do dynamic isometric stops on the last rep. Pause and hold at top, middle and bottom...good idea or bad? 7) Should I perform ladders everyday? every other day? When should I take a day off? That's it for now, all input on clarifying this matter from anybody would be greatly appreciated on helping me improve myself and pull-ups. thanks for your time. By the way, I have Naked Warrior and I love it. bye GnrX  

Answer

Pavel Tsatsouline: July 24 2004 

Com. GnrX, PTP is not applicable to DBs or KBs. Re ladders. 1) When I ladder downwards, should I do it in multiples of ones or twos? i.e. 1, 2, 3, 4 1, 2, 3 1, 2 1 or the way I'm currently doing it now in multiples of two: 1, 2, 3, 4 1, 2 1 EITHER. 2) How long should my rest periods be between sets? GENERALLY, THE WORK TO REST RATIO IS 1:1 WITHIN THE LADDER BUT IT IS JUST ONE OF MANY WAYS. 15 seconds--1 min. long? according to www.dragondoor.com/pavel_routines.html or 2-3 min as on Ssgt. Morrison's website? www.militaryfitness.org 3) Which HTT (high-tension techniques) should I apply to pull-ups? I read on a previous post that if I apply HTTs to every pull-up rep, I would 'burn out' quickly. Thus, should I only apply HTT only to the last couple of reps? CORRECT. 4) How should I breathe on every pull-up rep? Currently I'm doing exhale up, inhale down DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT, JUST TENSE THE ABS. 5) Since I can't vary the frequency (b/c of limited access to pullup bars), should I vary the volume like Mondays - 1,2,3,4 Tues- 1,2,3,4 WEd, 1,2,3 Thurs- 1,2 Friday- 1,2,3,4 WHY NOT. 6) Sometimes I make the exercise harder on some days by tucking my legs a la Naked Warrior p. 17 or I do dynamic isometric stops on the last rep. Pause and hold at top, middle and bottom...good idea or bad? GOOD. 7) Should I perform ladders everyday? every other day? When should I take a day off? IT DEPENDS. 

 

Question

rb75: July 24 2004 

Question for Pavel 

How has your training methods evolved from your early days? What principles have changed/stayed the same? 

Answer

Pavel Tsatsouline: July 26 2004 

Com. rb75, my training could be summed up in three words: “Strength is a skill.” This tenet has not changed and will not change in my book. My focus has been and will remain: doing the same thing better. For instance, Com. Brad Gillingham taught me to do DLs behind my back (not to be confused with the Hack SQ) as a great DL assistance exercise. I was writing PTP now, I would replace the back-off DL set with a set of these ‘backward’ DLs. With BPA through experimentation I have figured out that modified Jandas work better with a towel (rather than hands) and a 45 degree pull rather than a horizontal one. With kettlebell training my focus shifted from GS to combative applications a long time ago. The tools are continuously refined. For instance, Com. Steve Cotter stressed the importance of generating power by expanding and contracting the rib cage and Com. Jeff Martone came up with a straightforward drill to do that –‘the hot potato’. Or take the ‘face the wall SQ’ that Com. John Du Cane has taught me. It has dramatically simplified the process of teaching our victims the proper back alignment for swings, squats, etc. –while developing flexibility. We now teach the same thing better –and with fewer instructions. To sum it all up, the corner stones of the system are not changing but the applications are constantly refined as I keep learning.  

 

Question

Samson23: July 24 2004 

THE question 

After 3 months of no training I decided to start training again. In the past I was training classical bodybuilding style a la Joe Weider exclusively. Few months ago I realised that by doing that I was not getting noticebly stronger, just bigger. My goal from the beginning was strength. So later on I started reading your forum and I become familiar with many effective training styles. I have decided to put all my efforts in two lifts. The deadlift and bench press. I want to get as strong as possible as fast as possible in those two lifts. Right now I am wondering would it be better to do it classical PTP style(or alternating PTP and ladders) or to use Steve Justas singles routine for both lifts , or even do it the GTG way doing both lifts 2-5 times a day. Another thing I was wondering is the tempo of execution. While Pavel suggests doing exercises really slow, Steve Justa suggests doing them as fast as possible? Is it OK if I do them fast and keep in mind all others Pavels suggestions( irradiation, power breathing…)???? Would medium intensity cardio 3 times a week for the duration of about 30 minutes harness my strength gains???? Thanks in advance.  

Answer

Pavel Tsatsouline: July 26 2004 

Com. Samson23, you should approach strength training as you would approach a martial art -start training in one school (pick one), once you get good you have earned your right to experiementation, mixing and matching. Look at Com. powerlifter54, an armed forces PL champ. His methiod is a unique combo of WSB, Sheyko, PTP, MM, and a number of other things. A beginner trying that would only screw up. You either learn the straight punch the boxing way, the karate way, or the kung fu way; you don't try to combine them.  

 

Question

Mason Ryan, RKC: July 25 2004 

breathing question for RKC/CST cross-breeds 

A CST instructor was nice enough to do some demo work this afternoon. In doing the clubbell swing he was exhaling while in the hole (performance breathing stuff?). Where we stay pressurized under that time of load w/k-bells. When the momentum of the clubbells swung forward it seems like a none issue, natural. When I attempted to drive with the hips like a k-bell swing it seemed weaker, obviously. I am missing something in how he tried to elaborate clubbell style breathing. It seems less powerful and the safety issue under load is a little disconcerning. But the range of motion is obviously better. Should I just allow momentum to do the work, what aren't I getting? Thanks ahead of time for any feedback. mase  

Answer

Pavel Tsatsouline: July 26 2004 

Com. Mase, first, read Com. Steve Maxwell's reseponse. There are two types of coordinating the breath with the movement: anatomical and biomechanical. “In movements with small efforts (similar to those in calisthenic exercises such as trunk inclination) the inhalation should coincide with the trunk extension and the exhalation with the trunk bending. This is called an anatomical match (of breathing phases and movement). In contrast, when high forces are generated the expiration should match the forced phase of movement regardless of its direction or anatomical position. For instance, rowers exhale or use the Valsalva maneuver during the stroke phase… This breathing is termed a biomechanical match. During strength exercises, the breathing phases and movement should be matched biomechanically rather than anatomically.” (Zatsiorsky, 1995) In RKC we favor the biomechanical match because we tend to train with heavier KBs. But in GS most athletes use the anatomical to go the distance (a 32 is 'light' for a top girevik). You should be able to do both, depending on the application. A great way to experiment with two types of breathing is Com. Jeff's H2H. You will notice that with a light KB it is natural to "be breathed by your body" as Com. Scott Sonnon put it. But if you start throwing a 24 and esp. a 32 you will notice less explosion and much more back strain. Now try exploively inhaling through your nose at the bottom of each move to cushion your back and add a spring to your movement. Powerfully but not completelyI exhale on the top -like a puinch. It will not be most natural in the beginning (in Russian this is sometimes called 'paradox breathing') but your body will be happy with you at heavier loads. The bottom line: you are comparing apples and oranges. 

 

Question

armadin: July 26 2004 

What do you use your 2 or 2.5 pood for? 

Hi all, There has been talk of getting away from the 2 pood in favor of the 1.5. Some comrades have even sold there 2 poods. Is the difference between the 1.5 and 2 pood the dividing line between a carido intense workout and a strength only workout for most comrades? Is it too hard for non "mutant" comrades to burn fat with a 2 pood? I am interested in what comrades who have them use them for. I mostly use my 2 pood (only have one of them) for: under the legs passes suitcase lifts 2 arm swings DARC swings 2 arm flip swings 1 arm rows good mornings The 2 pood probably accounts for only 10% of my weekly workout. 1 pood 20% (a H2H juggling routine) 1.5 pood 50% 1.75 pood 20% I wish I had one more 2 pood so I could do the farmers walk and 1 leg deadlift with them but for now a pair of 28s will have to make do. thanks for reading, rob 

Answer

Pavel Tsatsouline: July 27 2004 

A great thread, Comrades! Intensity refers to the quality of the load but 'quality' means different things depending on the goals. The definition offered by Com. Andrey, tonnage lifted per unit of time, is appropriate for fat loss and somewhat appropriate for GS (a better definition for GS is the % of your RM but there are still debates). For strength work a better definition of intensity is the % of 1RM (how heavy is the KB), something Com. Tom referred to. That said, although I believe one's fat loss goals are better served with a ligher KB, the high set/low rep/low resr workouts (by Coms like Brett Jones and Mike Mahler) Com. Tom mentioned can deliver high intensity in Com Andrey's definition.  

 

Question

armadin: July 26 2004 

What do you use your 2 or 2.5 pood for? 

Hi all, There has been talk of getting away from the 2 pood in favor of the 1.5. Some comrades have even sold there 2 poods. Is the difference between the 1.5 and 2 pood the dividing line between a carido intense workout and a strength only workout for most comrades? Is it too hard for non "mutant" comrades to burn fat with a 2 pood? I am interested in what comrades who have them use them for. I mostly use my 2 pood (only have one of them) for: under the legs passes suitcase lifts 2 arm swings DARC swings 2 arm flip swings 1 arm rows good mornings The 2 pood probably accounts for only 10% of my weekly workout. 1 pood 20% (a H2H juggling routine) 1.5 pood 50% 1.75 pood 20% I wish I had one more 2 pood so I could do the farmers walk and 1 leg deadlift with them but for now a pair of 28s will have to make do. thanks for reading, rob 

Answer

Pavel Tsatsouline: July 27 2004 

Com. armadin, regardless of my personal bias towards low reps and heavier KBs, I believe most Comrades who train for MA, military/LE, or 'all-purpose S&C' are best served with a 24kg. One of those Maxercist workout where you don't put down your 1.5 pood for 15-20min with low rep strength work mixed in or done separately.  

 

Question

Josef: July 26 2004 

A question for Pavel... 

What are the deadlifts behind your back that you mentioned previously and what deadlift style from PTP would you replace with it? You said not to confuse this deadlift with the hack squat. All help is appreciated. 

Answer

Pavel Tsatsouline: July 27 2004 

Com. Josef, the Hack SQ is an extreme leverage drill (think the NW). For instance, when Com. Steve Maxwell demoed his 88lb Hacks to 600 pound squatters, they could not do it. The HSQ is done on your tiptoes with your hands in the small of the back, with a KB. In the BBDL your heels are planted and your arms are outside your legs as in the reg DL. The leverage is harder than the DL but much easier than the HSQ; I have done mid-400s w/o pushing it. Either is a great drill.  

 

Question

David Yeremian: July 27 2004 

Hack squat question 

Seeing all the hack squat discussions, I keep wondering to myself...if you squat on your toes, and get your butt way way down, aren't your knees extending way over your toes? i thought this was a big no no in PTP deadlifting. can someone clear up my confusion?  

Answer

Pavel Tsatsouline: July 28 2004 

Com. David, the HSQ is an extreme leverage drill that allows one to use very light weights. A comrade who stands up with an 88 would be strong enough to squat mid-300s if not more (Com. Steve Maxwell tested 600-pound squatters who could not do it). Now compare the forces on your 'forward' knees with 88 pounds and 3-4 times as much. 

 

Question

Konstantin16: July 28 2004 

snatch style questions 

Two questions: which style of snatch (the big swinging RKC version, or the olympic) produces the greater gains (cardio, fat loss +/or strength)? Is either preferred/required for the RKC certification? Thanks, C. 

Answer

Pavel Tsatsouline: July 30 2004 

Com. Konstantin16, either the RKC or the GS style is allowed and anything in between. The 'Olympic' version I presume is the sn from the platform; a great drill but not for this test. The RKC style is more power oriented; the GS style is max energy management. You will get conditioning benefits either way. 

 

Question

Ross Hunt: July 29 2004 

Wall Squats and Wall Pistols 

http://www.dragondoor.com/pavelnews_archive.html Does anyone here use these extensively? What do you use them for, and how well do you find that they work? I use wall squats to warm-up, especially for squat workouts. They do force me to put my hips back without moving my knees forward much, but they don't seem to enforce a well-arched lower back, at least not when I go rock bottom. I do wall pistols for the hell of it. I'm not really sure how much they carry over to anything else. Anybody else? 

Answer

Pavel Tsatsouline: July 30 2004 

Com. Ross, wall SQs are great for Sj training and for developing the proper spinal alignment and flexibility for SQs, DLs, swings, etc. Wall (or rather corner) pistols are hard. Personally, I find the bw wall pistol equal in difficulty to the regular pistol with a 32. 

 

Question

powerlifter54: July 29 2004 

Getting the Party Started on Strength Research-Coach Reeve check the PC study 

From John Berardi’s article at T-Mag. The kind of stuff I am always looking for in various places. The taper thing doesn’t shock me, as it is in Supertraining that the taper can be as long as the length of the buildup. The Power Clean study is interesting. Sort of raises a lot of questions about the power generation claims. Siff shows squat power at a max at 66% 1RM. Why would power clean power be highest at 1RM? Hmmmm… 17) Topic: Testosterone: Cortisol Ratio and Weightlifting Performance Authors: Michael Hartman and colleagues from the University of Oklahoma Abstract #: 2389 Coaches and sports scientists have long searched for a reproducible marker of training stress and performance ability. This would allow coaches to monitor athletes in an objective way and optimize training systems to produce consistent and superior results. In this study, researchers attempted to monitor and adjust the training of elite weightlifters in order to optimize the T:C ratio and ultimately, performance. Seven male US weightlifters trained with a two week build-up period (92 reps/week with a mean intensity of 85%), a two week overload period (188 reps/week with a mean intensity of 95%), and a four week reduced volume period (75 reps/week with a mean intensity of 80%). Baseline T:C was 28. T:C after two weeks of high intensity overload the ratio reduced to 23. After four weeks of reduced volume, T:C was 41. After the four week period, subjects all saw improvements in 1RM snatch and 1RM clean and jerk performance and five of the seven reported 5kg increases since their last competition. I can’t say whether this study supports the use of T:C in planning training cycles or whether it simply supports the use of a proper, well planned taper. Either way, it appears that scientists are closer to finding ways to enhance training and competition through a combination of time tested training ideas and more recent physiological measures. 2) Topic: Optimal Loading and Power Clean Authors: Tom Journell and colleagues from the University of Wisconsin — River Falls Abstract #: 1434 During conventional weight lifting exercise, maximal power output is usually achieved when moving loads of 30-40% 1RM at a maximal velocity. However, the optimal load to maximize power output in the Olympic lifts isn't often discussed. In this study, ten resistance trained men performed a 1RM power clean. Power output was recorded using a measurement system that records load, bar displacement, and displacement speed, calculating a value for power output. One week later, subjects returned to the lab and performed power cleans at 25%, 40%, 55%, 70% and 85% 1RM. It should be no surprise that the 100% RM power clean produced the most power. Therefore, unlike with traditional weight lifting exercise, power cleans performed at or near 100% 1RM yield the greatest power output. WOW jack  

Answer

Pavel Tsatsouline: July 30 2004 

Comrades, please read Com. Ethan's post. There are different ways to get the job done Com. Ethan Reeve does not mind using higher skill S&C and gets results. Com. Steve Baccari avoids higher skill S&C on the grounds that it is not efficicient. If 70% of his athletes do not pick up an exercise right away, he will discard it. He gets the results too. Arguing which approach is superior is akin to arguing about 'the best' martial art. Everyone believes his is the best. The important thing is not so much which art you pick but who is your teacher and how persistent and consistent you are. Yes, CONSISTENT. Mixing and matching elements of different systems is only justified at the highest levels of accomplishment. It is what 'black belt's do. E.g., Com. Jack 'powerlifter54' follows a unique approach of his own that borrows from WSB, PTP, Sheyko, MM, and othet things. If you talk to the man you will realize that he is extremely analytical and he took decades to get where he is. What bothers me is when a person with minimal knowledge decides to blend often incompatible (at least for 'junior belts') systems. "Why don't I do PTP but with power cleans... and add the Tabata protocol with Clubbells... alternated with nail bending and 20-rep squats..." I have seen it time and time again -they go nowhere. You have got to polish the basics (refer to Com. Steve Cotter's recent post). 'The basics', depending on the school of strength you follow, may be the KB swing or the WL snatch and SQ, or something else. A note on the RKC as a school of strength. It has two different uses: 1) a complete S&C system for the military/LE and martial artists and others who like it simple 2) a set of power generation tools to enhance other systems (as used by Coms. Ethan Reeve, Steve Baccari, and other HIGHLY EXPERIENCED coaches). To sum up: pick your system and polish its basics. Then you will know what to do next. 

 

Question

Solan: July 30 2004 

New guy saying hello and lots of other things. 

Hi, my name is Svein Olav Nyberg. I live in Norway. I currently work out twice per week, and my 3 core exercises are deadlift, dips and chins. I am also a grip fanatic, so my total number of exercises exceeds the party line 5. QUESTIONS: 1. I have added isometric stretching to my routine. Would you consider this something that needs to be counted in among the max 5 exercises? 2. I have a chinning bar at home. An excellent set-up that can be used in progression for 1-arm chins (more on that in a later post). I do chins when I pass by it, like Pavel's dad-in-law. Yet I notice some on this forum consider this overtraining. Since I am new to taking up advice from the Pavelian lines of abbreviated training, I wonder what experiences the rest of you here have with different chinning protocols. 3. Though I know cycling is needed, my ego has a tendency to forget it, to my training detriment. I now plan to have a 4-week cycle with the same exercises like this: Week 1 light, Week 2+3 multi-set low-rep 80-90% max for rep range, Week 4 try new higher weight (not necessarily max, only a few pounds added to last succesful attempt). How does that sound to you? 4. How do you guys best lose fat? 5. I notice Pavel advocates 1-arm deads, but recommends suitcase and not the straddle version. Is there any specific reason for this? 6. Pavel said he once got "the mother of all tendonitis" from a 1-arm chin-up. I did smething similar 15 years ago, and am still noticing it if I choose the wrong exercises. It must be said that deadlifting and Hardgainer advice has done a bunch of good for me in that department, though. How did Pavel heal his elbow (if he did)? COMMENTS: * I learnt proper training through Stuart McRobert's Hardgainer, and have visited HIT forums like Cyberpump. I notice that Pavel berates HIT a lot, yet some of the foremost HIT advicates are people he claims to hold in high esteem: Ken Leistner, Clarence Bass - and maybe I should add Mike Mentzer since he (like Art Drechsler) is a fan of Ayn Rand. How come such a discrepancy? * I want to become as strong as possible with as low a bodyweight as possible. My only vanity wish is to have lats like a flying squirrel. I hope to find modifications to my Hardgainer workouts here that will allow me just that. Da svidanya tovarishi, --Svein Olav Nyberg

My home page 

Answer

Pavel Tsatsouline: July 30 2004 

Com. Solan, welcome to the Party! 1. Download the new Hard-Style catalogue (free) for an in-depth article on isometrics. 2. Read the Naked Warrior. 3. Why reinvent the wheel? 4. KB swings. 5. The suitcase works the obliques better; both variations are good. 6. My elbows have been repeatedly jacked up by a variety of things (OAPs without proper technique, armwrestling, and some other things). They are not doing great. 7. I do not accept everything a coach says as a package. Dr. Ken has said great things and has done great things; not recognize it because he is a HITter would be lame.  

 
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Question

Samson23: July 24 2004 

THE question 

After 3 months of no training I decided to start training again. In the past I was training classical bodybuilding style a la Joe Weider exclusively. Few months ago I realised that by doing that I was not getting noticebly stronger, just bigger. My goal from the beginning was strength.